Thanks for proposing it, noriko! In Fedora 15, we had three i18n/l10n test days:

• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-03-03_I18n_Desktop
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-03-01_L10n_i18n_Installation
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-03-08_L10n_Desktop

For Fedora 16, feel free to suggest more tests to extend coverage and I think it's still better to host them together lasting about one week. Add two experts to the cc list.

Hello all,

I'm willing to help with the test days for this release cycle once again. Usually, test days are in a Tuesday or Thursday, but I don't see why we can't host one on Monday (2011-08-22) if that works best for translators.

If we start with the L10N test day on Monday, we also can have a i18n Desktop test day on Wednesday and a l10n/i18n installation test day on Friday. So we would have a full week of l10n/i18n tests. That is just a suggestion, we can make some adjustments to make it work for everyone.

Replying to [comment:2 igor]:

Hello all,

I'm willing to help with the test days for this release cycle once again. Usually, test days are in a Tuesday or Thursday, but I don't see why we can't host one on Monday (2011-08-22) if that works best for translators.

If we start with the L10N test day on Monday, we also can have a i18n Desktop test day on Wednesday and a l10n/i18n installation test day on Friday. So we would have a full week of l10n/i18n tests. That is just a suggestion, we can make some adjustments to make it work for everyone.

The time works for me, it's like a whole week event: l10n/i18n Test Week.

Thank you all, it is excellent idea to have a whole week event l10/i18n Test week.[[BR]]

For the image to use, it will be composed specifically for software review UI and this will be used for L10N test day. The same image can be used for other tests? Or should we use Alpha for others?[[BR]]

For the dates, as it says l10n/i18n test week, can we open whole week instead setting days? In this way, testers can test them all anytime during the week.

Replying to [comment:5 noriko]:

Thank you all, it is excellent idea to have a whole week event l10/i18n Test week.[[BR]]

For the image to use, it will be composed specifically for software review UI and this will be used for L10N test day. The same image can be used for other tests? Or should we use Alpha for others?[[BR]]

I think so. The other two can just use Alpha install/live images.

For the dates, as it says l10n/i18n test week, can we open whole week instead setting days? In this way, testers can test them all anytime during the week.

I don't have hard opinion here as long as we indicate that the whole week is active for testing l10n/i18n in the announcements.

Replying to [comment:6 rhe]:

Replying to [comment:5 noriko]:

Thank you all, it is excellent idea to have a whole week event l10/i18n Test week.[[BR]]

For the image to use, it will be composed specifically for software review UI and this will be used for L10N test day. The same image can be used for other tests? Or should we use Alpha for others?[[BR]]

I think so. The other two can just use Alpha install/live images.

+1. The other two could also use a nightly compose image.

For the dates, as it says l10n/i18n test week, can we open whole week instead setting days? In this way, testers can test them all anytime during the week.

I don't have hard opinion here as long as we indicate that the whole week is active for testing l10n/i18n in the announcements.

IMHO not setting specific days could be confusing for volunteers to test. Actually it all depends on the way we communicate this. We can make the test days pages available on the beginning of the week along with a proper announcement. In addition, during the week we can make a couple more announcements as a reminder. That way people will be constantly aware of what we need and what we are testing. I can make those announcements, no problem.

Replying to [comment:6 rhe]:

Replying to [comment:5 noriko]:

Thank you all, it is excellent idea to have a whole week event l10/i18n Test week.[[BR]]

For the image to use, it will be composed specifically for software review UI and this will be used for L10N test day. The same image can be used for other tests? Or should we use Alpha for others?[[BR]]

I think so. The other two can just use Alpha install/live images.

we can also do installation test day first, then use that installed system for i18n/l10n testing (instead of using live images). I missed libreoffice with langpack from live image. Also If we installation in a particular language, when we can expect desktop should be running that that language with Default installed packages.

Replying to [comment:8 aalam]:

Replying to [comment:6 rhe]:

Replying to [comment:5 noriko]:

Thank you all, it is excellent idea to have a whole week event l10/i18n Test week.[[BR]]

For the image to use, it will be composed specifically for software review UI and this will be used for L10N test day. The same image can be used for other tests? Or should we use Alpha for others?[[BR]]

I think so. The other two can just use Alpha install/live images.

we can also do installation test day first, then use that installed system for i18n/l10n testing (instead of using live images). I missed libreoffice with langpack from live image. Also If we installation in a particular language, when we can expect desktop should be running that that language with Default installed packages.

According to noriko, the specific images will be provided for L10N test day, so I guess the installed system is not suitable for test? But it's a good idea to do it before i18n desktop day. Also as Igor suggested, we still give each test day an exact date but with proper announcements. In all the test week could be organized like:

* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-22_L10n_Desktop  (Mon)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-24_L10n_i18n_Installation  (Wed)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-26_I18n_Desktop  (Fri)

I've updated the test day schedule to include these. Feel free to discuss and modify it in need.

Replying to [comment:9 rhe]:

According to noriko, the specific images will be provided for L10N test day, so I guess the installed system is not suitable for test? But it's a good idea to do it before i18n desktop day.

A installed system should be suitable for test as long as it's fully updated. I'll keep this in mind and will explicit add this information on the test days wiki pages.

Also as Igor suggested, we still give each test day an exact date but with proper announcements. In all the test week could be organized like:

* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-22_L10n_Desktop  (Mon)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-24_L10n_i18n_Installation  (Wed)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-26_I18n_Desktop  (Fri)

I've updated the test day schedule to include these. Feel free to discuss and modify it in need.

Sounds pretty good to me. I'll start working on the creation of wiki pages next week.

I have created the draft test days wiki pages as suggested by Rui. Feel free to add your names and improve the pages. I'll add the links for downloading the images when we have them.

Replying to [comment:11 igor]:

I have created the draft test days wiki pages as suggested by Rui. Feel free to add your names and improve the pages. I'll add the links for downloading the images when we have them.

Thanks Igor! I've added my name to the pages, and also created the F16 test days category. We can also add the common bugs as a ''Nice to test'' section below the test cases if in need.

Replying to [comment:12 rhe]:

Thanks Igor! I've added my name to the pages, and also created the F16 test days category. We can also add the common bugs as a ''Nice to test'' section below the test cases if in need.

Yes, this section is commented on the wiki source, when we have bugs to add there we can just remove the comment tags.

I'll send an announcement to the mailing lists about the availability of those tests days pages ASAP.

Replying to [comment:1 rhe]:

Thanks for proposing it, noriko! In Fedora 15, we had three i18n/l10n test days:

• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-03-03_I18n_Desktop
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-03-01_L10n_i18n_Installation
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-03-08_L10n_Desktop

For Fedora 16, feel free to suggest more tests to extend coverage and I think it's still better to host them together lasting about one week. Add two experts to the cc list.

That may be a bit too late to talk about the date though, as you may know we are planning to introduce new feature[1] for ibus and are working in progress to update the testcase for that because this test days would be good opportunity to get some feedback on that feature. we aren't even sure how much percentage of the works we could do until Alpha. so that would be appreciated if we have any chance to have (another) testing around Beta or so perhaps, for input at least.

*1 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GnomeInputIntegration

For Fedora 16, feel free to suggest more tests to extend coverage and I think it's still better to host them together lasting about one week. Add two experts to the cc list.

That may be a bit too late to talk about the date though, as you may know we are planning to introduce new feature[1] for ibus and are working in progress to update the testcase for that because this test days would be good opportunity to get some feedback on that feature. we aren't even sure how much percentage of the works we could do until Alpha. so that would be appreciated if we have any chance to have (another) testing around Beta or so perhaps, for input at least.

*1 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GnomeInputIntegration

If you prefer we can move the ibus test cases to a exclusive input method test day after Beta release. There are open slots on 2011-09-22 and 2011-10-06.

Replying to [comment:15 igor]:

If you prefer we can move the ibus test cases to a exclusive input method test day after Beta release. There are open slots on 2011-09-22 and 2011-10-06.

Is it possible to have both test days for ibus on Alpha and Beta?
There should be good opportunities to do that on even Alpha and we could feedback to Beta against it if there are any issues.

FWIW I'm not in Cc so it's hard to catch this up in a timely manner ;)

Ah, nevermind. I thought I can't add me in CC.

Replying to [comment:16 tagoh]:

Replying to [comment:15 igor]:

If you prefer we can move the ibus test cases to a exclusive input method test day after Beta release. There are open slots on 2011-09-22 and 2011-10-06.

Is it possible to have both test days for ibus on Alpha and Beta?
There should be good opportunities to do that on even Alpha and we could feedback to Beta against it if there are any issues.

Sounds cool, we can have another test day(s) on Beta for verification and the new feature. Which day do you prefer then and are there any new test cases for it? Igor and Noriko, would you like to have another l10n test day on Beta?

I don't think that an additional L10N Test Day is necessary, and actually it doesn't make much since software translation deadline is before Beta release.

Anyway, we can have the new feature specific test day after Beta release. Since we are introducing a new feature it might be nice to run the input method tests cases on the i18 test day and also on an additional test day.

Replying to [comment:18 rhe]:

Replying to [comment:16 tagoh]:

Replying to [comment:15 igor]:

If you prefer we can move the ibus test cases to a exclusive input method test day after Beta release. There are open slots on 2011-09-22 and 2011-10-06.

Is it possible to have both test days for ibus on Alpha and Beta?
There should be good opportunities to do that on even Alpha and we could feedback to Beta against it if there are any issues.

Sounds cool, we can have another test day(s) on Beta for verification and the new feature. Which day do you prefer then and are there any new test cases for it? Igor and Noriko, would you like to have another l10n test day on Beta?

Great. 22th of September sounds nice to me. even though the feature complete is coming prior to that, we might have a chance to fix the critical issues if any. so I prefer earlier one.
for new test cases, we are working on updating the test cases to cover new features now. I hope we'll introduce the updates shortly.

if you want something post-beta but pre-freeze, and there's no scheduled slots available in that time, we could schedule a Tuesday, I guess.

Update the test day schedule to add another i18n test day, see:

• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_16_test_days

Adjust the time as Adam suggested if in need.

According to noriko, the specific images will be provided for L10N test day, so I guess the installed system is not suitable for test? But it's a good idea to do it before i18n desktop day. Also as Igor suggested, we still give each test day an exact date but with proper announcements. In all the test week could be organized like:

* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-22_L10n_Desktop  (Mon)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-24_L10n_i18n_Installation  (Wed)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-26_I18n_Desktop  (Fri)

I've updated the test day schedule to include these. Feel free to discuss and modify it in need.

Sorry replying late. It looks beautiful.[[BR]]
One favour, is it possible or too late to change L10N test date from 2011-08-22 to 2011-08-23 Tuesday?[[BR]]
The image to be used for this test will be composed on 2011-08-19 Friday. It is convenient to have a day (Monday) for preparation before testing.[[BR]]
This is minor, and both dates fine but just preference.

Replying to [comment:23 noriko]:

According to noriko, the specific images will be provided for L10N test day, so I guess the installed system is not suitable for test? But it's a good idea to do it before i18n desktop day. Also as Igor suggested, we still give each test day an exact date but with proper announcements. In all the test week could be organized like:

* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-22_L10n_Desktop  (Mon)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-24_L10n_i18n_Installation  (Wed)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-26_I18n_Desktop  (Fri)

I've updated the test day schedule to include these. Feel free to discuss and modify it in need.

Sorry replying late. It looks beautiful.[[BR]]
One favour, is it possible or too late to change L10N test date from 2011-08-22 to 2011-08-23 Tuesday?[[BR]]
The image to be used for this test will be composed on 2011-08-19 Friday. It is convenient to have a day (Monday) for preparation before testing.[[BR]]
This is minor, and both dates fine but just preference.

It's not late as long as it's before the test days imo.:) If you prefer the other day, can you please move the current page to the new one, and adjust the F16 test day schedule accordingly? Thanks.

Replying to [comment:23 noriko]:

Sorry replying late. It looks beautiful.[[BR]]
One favour, is it possible or too late to change L10N test date from 2011-08-22 to 2011-08-23 Tuesday?[[BR]]
The image to be used for this test will be composed on 2011-08-19 Friday. It is convenient to have a day (Monday) for preparation before testing.[[BR]]
This is minor, and both dates fine but just preference.

No problem Noriko but remember that we are proposing a Test Week, so if you want to keep the test day on the current date and run the tests over the week there is no problem either.

No problem Noriko but remember that we are proposing a Test Week, so if you want to keep the test day on the current date and run the tests over the week there is no problem either.

Right, Igor. It would be best not to change to avoid any confusion.

Replying to [comment:14 tagoh]:

That may be a bit too late to talk about the date though, as you may know we are planning to introduce new feature[1] for ibus and are working in progress to update the testcase for that because this test days would be good opportunity to get some feedback on that feature. we aren't even sure how much percentage of the works we could do until Alpha. so that would be appreciated if we have any chance to have (another) testing around Beta or so perhaps, for input at least.

*1 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GnomeInputIntegration

Okay, here is the testcases for new ibus feature test day from fujiwarat.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_ibus_start
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_ibus_bridge_hotkey
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_ibus_gnome_shell

There seems no test day page for 09-22 created yet. so any help for that would be appreciated.

I created the 2011-09-22 test day page draft:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-09-22_I18n_Desktop

I kept the input method tests cases from the previous test day and added the new ones. Please, take a look and make further editions, if necessary.

Just a suggestion: I'd say to take a special look to make sure the 2011-09-22 test day includes testing to cover the GNOME input integration feature - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GnomeInputIntegration .

* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-22_L10n_Desktop  (Mon)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-24_L10n_i18n_Installation  (Wed)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-26_I18n_Desktop  (Fri)

Due to recent one week schedule slip, these test days are slipped as well.

Replying to [comment:30 noriko]:

* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-22_L10n_Desktop  (Mon)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-24_L10n_i18n_Installation  (Wed)
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-26_I18n_Desktop  (Fri)

Due to recent one week schedule slip, these test days are slipped as well.
Fedora Alpha is going to release on Aug 23, so we have time to go ahead with this
or we need to shift only 2011-08-22 Test Day to other day in same or next week.

According to the updated schedule the review period will start on Aug 29, so the live image for translation review will only be available by that time. I suggest that we sleep the test days in one week as well.

Now I see that sleeping the test days in one week would make them collide with other test days so I rearranged the schedule a bit:

• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-23_L10n_I18n_Installation
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-24_I18n_Desktop
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-26_L10n_Desktop

Noriko, is it possible to file the ticket for the creation of the translation review image a couple days earlier so we can have it ready on Aug 26th?

Noriko, is it possible to file the ticket for the creation of the translation review image a couple days earlier so we can have it ready on Aug 26th?[[BR]]

Hum... it seems safer to me to follow the schedule.[[BR]]
On the schedule, the reminder to the maintainers to rebuild with latest package will be sent 22-Aug(Mon), and the image will be created on 26-Aug(Fri), and the L10N Test day will be on 29-Aug(Mon). This schedule can allow a couple of days for the maintainers to rebuild their packages with latest translation, as well accommodate the time lag upon the review image creation with the following weekend.

http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-16/f-16-trans-tasks.html

Anyway, I will send the reminder to devel-announce today.

you can actually push it back a week if you like: I'm going to be moving the X test week back as well, so that week becomes free. sorry not to let you know earlier!

Replying to [comment:35 adamwill]:

you can actually push it back a week if you like: I'm going to be moving the X test week back as well, so that week becomes free. sorry not to let you know earlier!

Thanks for informing. I've rescheduled the test days time and pages to the following:

• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-30_L10n_Desktop (Next Tue)
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-31_L10n_I18n_Installation (Next Wed)
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-09-01_I18n_Desktop (Next Thu)

Igor,

The request for composing live image has now been submitted.[[BR]]
https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4896

Could you mind to make an update announcement for this event?

Thanks, Noriko!

I'll send the announcement to the mailing lists ASAP.

just a note to improve next test day event, the test cases and the target applications should be revamped prior to run the test day against the trends and the package sets in the release of Fedora.

That's quite sad to see the sort of the comment, "Command Not Found" a lot. the contents of the wiki may needs more love to follow up if something is hard to understand what exactly testers is supposed to do there.

Well, I'm talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-08-30_L10n_Desktop. sorry.

Replying to [comment:41 tagoh]:

just a note to improve next test day event, the test cases and the target applications should be revamped prior to run the test day against the trends and the package sets in the release of Fedora.

That's quite sad to see the sort of the comment, "Command Not Found" a lot. the contents of the wiki may needs more love to follow up if something is hard to understand what exactly testers is supposed to do there.

Do you mean that you get "Command Not Found" when the application is not installed?

Since the first test days we include not only the default applications available the media but also key application in the repositories, such as configuration tools. A yum install application-name should be enough to make most application run without problems.

Replying to [comment:43 igor]:

Do you mean that you get "Command Not Found" when the application is not installed?

Since the first test days we include not only the default applications available the media but also key application in the repositories, such as configuration tools. A yum install application-name should be enough to make most application run without problems.

Since most translators doesn't know the technical thing, even if it's obvious for you and me, it's not necessarily true for them. the comment on wiki would says it all. I'm just suggesting we should explain a bit more how to install non-default packages to test and would be nice which one wouldn't be installed by default to avoid non-constructive comments such as "blahblahblah isn't installed by default". we know that, don't we?

I think that it has been suggested by Tagoh to amend 'Steps' column under 'Metrix' section to more detailed steps. For example;

Currently it says for 'system-config-samba';[[BR]]
Issue the command system-config-samba

For future test it can say;[[BR]]
Issue the command system-config-samba. [[BR]]
If 'command not found' error encountered, simply install the package. To achieve this;[[BR]]
Issue the command sudo yum install system-config-samba.[[BR]]
Once install, [[BR]]
issue again the command system-config-samba.

Yes, something like that. we could check if the package is installed by default prior to run testing. just putting any marker to indicate "You need to follow the steps to install this package first" in any column would be simple and add steps to install the package in HowTo section.

if checking package sets every time is too much work, we should add some notes like "test case contains non-default packages too. if you don't have packages installed, please try 'yum install blahblahblah'" at least. current description is apparently missing that. IMHO this leads why we have a lot of "Command not found" comments there.

IMHO a good approach would be to recommend testers to install "PackageKit-command-not-found". That way when "Command not found" is raised PackageKit would automatically suggest the appropriated package to install.

Sure. that's a good idea though, we may need to update the wiki to ensure all testcases has to be ran on the terminal and describing all of the actual command to be tested.

Test Week is now done! Thank you all for your efforts and suggestions. I will write a full recap and post it soon.

I suggest to keep this ticket opened for the next i18n test day on September, 22nd.

Igor, from some bugs I found additional steps to be added for s-c-kdump and s-s-java packages. Could you please add the following in the template to reflect for F17 L10N test in future?[[BR]]

system-config-kdump:[[BR]]
It needs to run in selinux permissive mode, issue this command.[[BR]]
$ sudo setenforce 0

system-switch-java:[[BR]]
It needs to have JRE installed, to install;[[BR]]
$ sudo yum install java-1.5.0-gcj[[BR]]
$ sudo yum install java-1.6.0-openjdk[[BR]]

Done, Noriko!

I updated the template with your suggestions and also added a note recommending testers to install PackageKit-command-not-found:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_16_l10n_Results_Template

is this event going ahead? the page looks kinda thin.

sorry for the late ping, still chasing beta here :(

Thanks for pinging. updated a bit after reading through the whole page.

Replying to [comment:54 tagoh]:

Thanks for pinging. updated a bit after reading through the whole page.

Do you need help to communicate this?

Any advertisement are welcome. we want to see feedbacks as much as possible against this testing.

Announcements sent both to i18n and test-announce mailing lists.

These events all went off as planned, thanks for all your work in pulling them together. Apologies for any lack of support from our side, we had a very busy F16 cycle.

This issue has been migrated to Fedora Forge:
https://forge.fedoraproject.org/quality/tickets/issues/222

Please continue any further discussion there.